Scottish Inventiveness

A typical Englishman finishes his breakfast of toast and marmalade invented by Mrs Keller of Dundee, Scotland, and slipsinto his raincoat, patented by Charles Mackintosh from Glasgow, Scotland. He then walks to his office along an Enlgish - tarmac surfaced - lane, invented by John Loudon MacAdam of Ayr, Scotland. Or he arrives in his car, which is fitted with pneumatic tyres patnented by John Boyd Dunlop, of Dreghorn, Scotland.
Before he had a car he used to travel by train, which was powered by a steam engine, invented by James Watt of Greenock, Scotland.
In his office he deals with the mail bearing adhesice stamps invented by John Chalmers of Dundee, Scotland, and makes frequent use of the telephone, invented by Alexander Graham Bell, born in Edinburgh, Scotland.
At home in the evening, he dines on his favourite Roast beef from Aberdeen Angus, raised in Aberdeenshire, Scotland. He then watches some televisionan invention of Scotsman John Logie Baird, of Helensbourgh, Scotland - about John Paul Jones, father of the United States navy, born in Kirkbean, Scotland. The Englishman's son prefers to read Treasure Island, written by famous Scottish author, Robert Louis Stevenson, from Edinburgh, Scotland. Whilst his daughter prefers to play in the garden with her bicycle, invented by Kirkpatrick Macmillan, of Thornhill, Scotland.

It is impossible for an Englishman to escape the ingenuity of the Scots!

In desperation he turns to the bible only to find that the first person metioned is a Scotsman king James V1, who authorized the translation.
He could - of course - turn to drink, but Scotland makes the finest whiskey in the world.
At the end of his tether he uplifts a rifle to end it all, but Captain Patrick Feguson, of Pitfours, Scotland invented the Breech-loading-rifle!
If the Englishman escapes death by the rifle, he would find himself being injected with penicillin
discovered by Scottish Bacteriologist, Sir Alexander Fleming, of Darvel, Scotland - or he might be given Chloroform, am anaesthetic first used by Sir James Young Simpson, of Bathgate, Scotland.
Out of the anaesthetic, the Englishman's mood would not be improved if the doctor told him that his condition was as safe as the bank of England, which was founded by William Paterson, of Dumfries, Scotland.

Perhaps in order to get some peace, he could request a transfusion o guid Scottish blood so that he to could be entitled to ask

I'm trying toconvince Gerri that Scotland invented Holland, but with little success.

What she never tiires of telling me though is that it was the Scottish Regiments that freed the Dutch from the Nazis.

As I say to her, you'll very rarely get an Englishman in the front line.

Aren't we just a clever wee nation eh? Magic! :-)

Dunlop's patent was invalidated because of prior art; someone else was years ahead of him. It was another Scot, Robert William Thomson.

The original post was, of course adapted from tea towels and postcards available in any tourist shop but there's a lot of truth in it. Even when we get up, one of the first things we do is brush our teeth with a toothbrush, invented by James Gibb of Falkirk, 1746. We watch TV, travel in vehicles with pneumatic tyres along tarmacadam roads, use the telephone, etc, etc.

Yet there's more. On the TV, you'll ocassionally see that symbol of all things English, Tower Bridge in London. There's not many people aware, however, that the engines which currently lift the bascules on Tower Bridge were developed and built by McTaggart-Scott of Loanhead, Scotland.

The man who developed the steam locomotive to the point that it kicked off the railway revolution, George Stephenson, had served his apprenticeship under James Watt. Watt himself developed Boulton's steam engine to make it reciprocating and thereby kick-started the industrial revolution. George Stephenson was semi-literate and was determined that his son, Robert, was going to have the best education available, so he sent him to what was then the finest seat of learning in Europe - Edinburgh University. That university has seen many famous men pass through it's doors, including Charles Darwin, the man accredited as being the father of evolutionary theory. Yet almost 20 years before Darwin set foot on The Beagle, tree hybridiser Patrick Matthew of Gowrie (between Perth and Dundee) coined the phrase "natural selection" for the first time in his book On Naval Timber and Arboriculture.

To my mind the greatest human being of all time was Alexander Fleming, because his (re) discovery of penicillin has saved, continues to save and will save countless lives. I would consider him the greatest whatever his nationality. It's just a happy coincidence that he was a Scot.

We did invent the world, but I believe God is challenging that one..

The Garden o' Eden wis made here on Earth,
And it's north o' the Tweed we believe;
Aye, auld Scotland's the place and the hale human race,
Sterted oot wi MacAdam and Eve.

In six days, no' under,
He made every wonder;
Except for the Forth and Tay Bridges;
Then ayeweys a bloke for a practical joke,
He made Scotland the hame o' the midges.

(Alastair MacDonald, "The Midges")

quickfind:alan1hogan > "makes frequent use of the telephone, invented by Alexander Graham Bell, born in Edinburgh, Scotland."

Well... here's the thing, does anybody really invent anything?

Sharing this man's surname, I know a bit about him... and Bell invented many things, but did he invent the telephone?

See here for stuff on AGB ->
quickfind:1235

Italian-Americans will tell you a guy called Meucci invented the telephone a year before Bell, and other people will tell you a man called Elisha Grey invented it. Did they all invent it? Did one of them pinch from one of the others? Or were they thinking in parallel?

The same thing with the television. Scots think of Logie Baird inventing the telly, but there's a guy called Philo Farmsworth (sp?), and at least two Russians who had a hand too.

A websearch brings this up

http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/telephone.html

"There is a lot of controversy and intrigue surrounding the invention of the telephone. There have been court cases, books, and articles generated about the subject. Of course, Alexander Graham Bell is the father of the telephone. After all it was his design that was first patented, however, he was not the first inventor to come up with the idea of a telephone.

Antonio Meucci, an Italian immigrant, began developing the design of a talking telegraph or telephone in 1849. In 1871, he filed a caveat (an announcement of an invention) for his design of a talking telegraph. Due to hardships, Meucci could not renew his caveat. His role in the invention of the telephone was overlooked until the United States House of Representatives passed a Resolution on June 11, 2002, honoring Meucci's contributions and work (To read the report search Thomas Legislation, Bill summary and Status, 107th Congress, H Res 269 ).

To make matters even more interesting Elisha Gray, a professor at Oberlin College, applied for a caveat of the telephone on the same day Bell applied for his patent of the telephone. In Historical First Patents: The First United States Patent for Many Everyday Things (Scarecrow Press, 1994), Travis Brown, reports that Bell got to the patent office first. The date was February 14, 1876 . He was the fifth entry of that day, while Gray was 39th. Therefore, the U.S. Patent Office awarded Bell with the first patent for a telephone, US Patent Number 174,465 rather than honor Gray's caveat.

So, if someone asks who is credited with inventing the telephone, you can explain the controversy that still surrounds this question. The answer is Bell, but be sure to mention Meucci and Gray, because they played important roles in its development."

http://inventors.about.com/od/tstartinventions/a/Television_Time.htm

Here's one of the better answers, to this problem -
"Television was not invented by a single inventor, instead many people working together and alone over the years, contributed to the evolution of television."

Alexander Graham Bell also had a hand in the development of the hydrofoil, and aeroplane. His plane design was much better than the Wright brothers...

good god almighty.

The first two posters in this thread are great examples of everything thats wrong with this country.

Mcnavel gazing numpties.

You are really Brick Tambland, and I claim my prize.

By the way, Mac is more common than Mc in Scotland...

My mum was one of the first people to receive penicillin back
in 1943, when she was two years old suffering from
meningitis. So it's thanks to Mr Fleming and his reluctance to do the washing up, that I'm here at all.

When God finished creating Scotland, he called over St. Peter and said "Pete, look what I just did".... "this is my crowning glory on earth"...... "lush green fields in the south, stark wonderful mountains in the north, a wonderous bounty called Haggis and my favorite drink, Whisky".....

St Peter looks down and says "Gee Boss... that's great, but don't you think you have spoiled them?"

"ah'" says God..... "you haven't met their neighbors yet"....

Oh dear, another one I've heard so many times...

Sorry, fellers, but unacceptable arrogance here:

'The typical Englishman' sweeping generalisation 'finishes his breakfast of toast and MARMALADE invented by Mrs Keiller of Dundee Scotland' no, Marmalade was brought to Britain by the Romans, Typical Scottish arrogance to try and hijack the 'invention'. 'and slips into his RAINCOAT invented by Charles MacIntosh from Glasgow,Scotland.' Made with vulcanised rubber invented by an American. Since when has a coat design been an 'invention' and how many people actually wear the things?

'He walks to his office along an English Lane which is surfaced by TARMAC invented by John Loudon MacAdam of Ayr,Scotland'

Utter rubbish. Macadam came up with a type of road surfacing which simplified construction back in the days of horse and cart. Tarmac is an English invention over 100 years later. Macadam, like Watt, came up with his design while living in England, with English co-workers funded by English money. That would be sufficient for Scots to claim an invention as theirs if the other way around, wouldn't it? Modern roads, as with most modern construction, are indebted to mainly English inventions and innovations, eg; Portland cement and tarmac.

' - or he drives his English car which is fitted by PNEUMATIC TYRES patented by John Boyd Dunlop of Dreghorn,Scotland.' And fitted with English inventions: the internal combustion engine, disc brakes, alternator etc.

Congratulations, though; this one is indeed a Scottish invention, but it was William Thompson. Dunlop came up with how to fit pneumatic tyres to bikes (and therefore, when the came along, to cars).

'Before he acquired a car he used to travel to his office by train which was powered by a STEAM ENGINE invented by James Watt of Greenock, Scotland.'

No. This is a Scottish lie. The steam engine was yet another English invention, as was just about every invention and advance that fuelled the industrial revolution. Watt invented the condenser which improved the steam engine.

'In his office he deals with the mail bearing ADHESIVE STAMPS invented by John Chalmers of Dundee, Scotland,'

Except postage stamps were invented by an Englishman, Rowland Hill. The claim a Scot invented them is supported only by a book written by…Chamlmers' son! No agenda there, then.

' and makes frequent use of the TELEPHONE invented by Alexander Graham Bell born in Edinburgh, Scotland.'

No. Bell was in the process of being sued by the real inventor, a Frenchman, when the real inventor, Meucy, died. Luckily for Bell and his offspring. Typical Scottish arrogance and desperation to be liked, to ignore this and claim an invention for yourselves.

'At home in the evening he dines on his favourite traditional ROAST BEEF from Aberdeen Angus, raised in Aberdeenshire, Scotland'

Are you claiming to have invented cattle? This wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

' - and then watches an item on the TELEVISION - an invention of John Logie Baird of Helensburgh, Scotland – '

No. The tv is far too complicated to have one inventor. An Englishman and two Americans have much stronger claims. Baird has this reputation because he was the first to demonstrate it (in England, off course) and the Scottish talent for perpetuating myth when it is in their favour.

'His son prefers to read TREASURE ISLAND written by Robert Louis Stevenson, born in Edinburgh, Scotland,'

Nobody should go up against England when it comes to novelists, poets and writers, least of all the Scots.

' whilst his daughter plays in the garden with her BICYCLE, an invention of Kirkpatrick MacMillan of Thornhill, Scotland.'

No, the bike is another French invention.

'It is impossible for an Englishman to escape the ingenuity of the Scots!'

Utter arrogance.

'In desperation he turns to the BIBLE only to find that the first person mentioned in the good book is a Scot - King James VI, who authorised it's translation.'

No. James VI was English with and English father and French mother.

'Perhaps in order to get some peace, he should request a transfusion of guid Scottish blood so that he too would be entitled to ask-

WHA'S LIKE US?'

Can you imagine a statement implying racial superiority more than this?

An English version of this, with an accompanying statement of superiority wouldn't be allowed – even this retort probably won't survive moderation.

This just goes to demonstrate the politically correct assumption that permeates western society that small counties must, by definition, be poor, put-upon, oppressed people who can do no wrong, have never done any wrong and are thus allowed to hurl any insult at larger neighbours.

Apologies to decent Scots, but this is a reply to this "Wha's like us" drivel which I'm fed up with seeing.

I wonder if the following would be allowed on tea-towels and in English tourist shops (immediately banned, I suspect):

Part 1

The average Scotsman, in the home he doesn't apparently refer to as his castle, slips into his national costume, a Roman girl's dress covered with an Austrian girl's dress pattern (that's a tartan kilt for the hard of thinking), having just lunched on the Roman dish, Haggis. Deciding he looks like a complete idiot, he dons the de facto national dress of England, the business suit. Like the English language, this has taken over the world, so it makes him feel like a reasonable human being, rather than a Teutonic dancing girl.

He drives an English car (through admittedly probably owned these days by a German company) fitted with an internal combustion engine, brakes, alternator, fuel injection etc all invented by Englishmen.

He arrives at the station and boards a train, invented by an Englishman, the forerunner of which was developed from the steam engine, invented by an Englishman, running of rail tracks, invented by an Englishman. To make himself feel better, the Scotsman ignores the inventor of the steam engine, Thomas Savery, and the inventor of the atmospheric steam engine, Newcomen – 'the father of the industrial revolution', as they are both English. He prefers to pretend that Watt, forty years after the event, 'invented' the steam engine.

Desperate to avoid all these English innovations, he heads for the airport, only to discover the jet engine was invented by an Englishman , as was the commercial airliner, and the international language of air traffic control is English.

At the office he receives the mail bearing adhesive stamps invented by an Englishman, works on a computer, invented by an Englishman and uses the internet, invented by an Englishman.

During the day he uses the telephone invented by a Frenchman, but desperately tries to make himself feel better by pretending a Scotsman invented it. When it is pointed out that the 'Scotsman' concerned, apart from not being the inventor, was American, he buries his head in the sand and re-defines nationality by consigning anyone he approves of with any Scottish heritage whatsoever as 100% Scottish. In almost the same breath, after re-classifying zillions of the world's population as Scottish when it suits, he'll hide behind Scotland's population of 'only 5 million' to excuse under-achievement. How very convenient.

At home in the evening his daughter pedals her bicycle invented by another Frenchmen, but he nevertheless convinces himself this was another Scottish invention.

After the bike ride, his daughter completes homework on evolution, gravity, Newton's Laws, DNA, Calculus and atomic theory.

Irked at all these English scientific advances he persuades her to study literature instead. Unfortunately, this consists of Shakespeare, Dickens, the Bronte sisters, Orwell and a legion of English poets like Keats, Coleridge and Kipling.

He watches the news on his television, an invention of mainly English and American origin and hears an item about the U.S. Navy, founded by the US Congress. However, he patronisingly assumes America is a tinpot country where anyone can found a navy and re-assigns the nationality of one of the Americans who set it up, due to ancestry. At the same time he calls an Englishman 'arrogant' when he suggests footballer Owen Hargreaves is English due to his English mother. Odd.

He might also risk seeing references to 1000s of institutions in America that were founded by Englishmen, or Americans of English decent. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and many of the 'founding fathers' had English ancestry. By Scottish logic, what can England claim from America???

Nowhere can a Scotsman turn to escape the ingenuity of the English and his own highly convenient view of facts.

He could take to drink, but he prefers English gin and real ale to Irish drinks like whisky.

He could take a rifle and end it all, but the rifle, developed from the Spanish musket, was first used in England and the US; and while nobody knows who invented it, the likelihood that it's English or American of English ancestry (and therefore English by his own logic) is too great.

If he escapes death, he might then find himself on an operating table but the possibility of being sullied by English medical advances is inevitable: blood transfusion, vaccination, general anaesthetic, aspirin, what is he to do?

Out of the anaesthetic, he would find no comfort in learning he was as safe as the Royal Bank of Scotland…oh dear.

Perhaps his only remaining hope would be to get a transfusion of guid English blood which would entitle him to ask 'why was I such an idiot before my English pioneered blood transfusion?'

quickfind:jonah > "James VI was English with and English father and French mother."
I will dispute that point.
James Charles Stuart, (James VI) was the son of Mary, Queen of Scots, and her second husband, Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley.
To state that Mary I of Scotland was French is drawing a very long bow. Her Father was King James V of Scotland and her mother was a indeed the French Mary of Guise. She was born at Linlithgow Palace in Scotland. Having a French mother and education would not change her Scottish nationality.

Are you claiming his father Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley was English, because he was born in 1545, at Temple Newsam, Leeds, in the West Riding of Yorkshire ?
This only occurred because his parents, the 4th Earl of Lennox, and his wife, Margaret Douglas, were forced lived in exile in England for 22 years, returning to Scotland in 1564. I certainly don't think Darnley considered himself English.
I think you may possibly may be guilty of over egging the pudding yourself on that point.

Some of your other points have may been stretched a little. You have overlooked the many European and American inventors who had major parts to play in the development of the internal combustion engine. The same applies to fuel injection, and the jet engine, after all, the German Heinkel HE 178, and the Italian Caproni Campini L1 both flew before the Gloster Whittle E28/39, and the Luftwaffe had operational jet aircraft in service before the RAF and way before the Americans.
As a railway historian I would certainly dispute most of the paragraph on railway development.
While it is plain to see that you are quite narked with the original posting, and you have made some very valid points, you have fallen somewhat into the same trap.

'As a railway historian I would certainly dispute most of the paragraph on railway development.'

Flanged rail: John Curr (English)
Plate Rail: Ben Outram (English)
Steam Engine: Thomas Savery (English) and Thomas Newcomen (English) – improved by Watt, off course.
First working railway: Richard Trevithick (English).
First steam locomotive: Matthew Murray (English) and John Bleninsop (English).
First public railway line: George Stevenson (English).

'While it is plain to see that you are quite narked with the original posting, and you have made some very valid points, you have fallen somewhat into the same trap.'

And yet no prior response from you to the 'Wha's like us' garbage?

Actually, this 'trap' was rather the point. Predictably, a Scottish version that boasts about achievements that aren't theirs or at best only partly theirs while sneering at their neighbours is allowed to pass. An English version is jumped on. On BBC message boards, for example, this "Wha's like us" drivel appears regularly. Any English response pointing out the lies and misrepresentations is immediately deleted by mods. Any English response in kind (and we don't even have to lie about this stuff) is deleted.

The Wiki 'Scottish Inventions' page: 'the invention's Scottishness is determined by the fact that they were brought into existence in Scotland by non-Scots working in the country' So, if a Scot living in England invents something (Watt, McAdam etc) it's a Scottish invention. If an Englishman invents something in Scotland…why! It's a Scottish invention! Amazing!

It's this PC leeway we're all supposed to give so-called small countries that assumes because they are next to a bigger country they must be poor, put-upon, butter-wouldn't-melt victims next to evil oppressors. This leads to utter tripe like this in the same thread:

'What she never tiires of telling me though is that it was the Scottish Regiments that freed the Dutch from the Nazis.

As I say to her, you'll very rarely get an Englishman in the front line.'

Scottish views of their own history and achievements is riven with lies, rumour and myth presented as fact.

That's why two-faced, back-stabbing Scots can claim anything that Britain or its empire did that is considered positive for themselves, but anything negative…why, that's all the fault of the wicked English!

That's why it's considered acceptable for trash like 'Wha's like us' to appear on Scottish tourist paraphernalia. I'm just surprised the families of the genuine inventors don't sue, and I'm surprised the families of English war heroes don't sue your mods.

'so he sent him to what was then the finest seat of learning in Europe - Edinburgh University.'

Typical Scottish arrogance. If I said that epithet belonged at any given time to Cambridge or Oxford I'd no doubt be dismissed as a 'little Englander' or somesuch. I wonder what the condition of Edinburgh Uni was before the union and all the riches and civilisation that subsequently flowed your way?

' That university has seen many famous men pass through it's doors' what half decent uni hasn't? Would you like me to list just a few from Cambridge? 'including Charles Darwin' Oh really? He didn't go to Christ's College, Cambridge, then? This thrashing around trying to belittle any English achievement (like Darwin) is precisely why I attacked that 'Wha's like us' garbage. You can deconstruct any achievement if you try. Especially Scottish ones, as you're such notorious BS merchants. It usually stems from the assumption that the merest modicum of Scottish ancestry makes anyone you approve of 100% Scottish. Any Englishman must demonstrate implacable English ancestry for generations, lest he be dismissed as some other nationality.

quickfind:deleted > "What she never tiires of telling me though is that it was the Scottish Regiments that freed the Dutch from the Nazis.

As I say to her, you'll very rarely get an Englishman in the front line.":dutchscot

Sorry to the decent Scottish folks, but I can't let this go without comment.

Let's have a quick look at this supposed Scottish military superiority…

Battle of Neville's Cross: Scottish forces – 12,000; English forces – 5,000. Result – England win (despite being outnumbered over two to one). Scotland had invaded unprovoked and committed multiple atrocities (surprise, surprise) on the way to Durham.

Battle of Dupplin Moor: Scottish forces – 10,000 to 15,000. English forces – 1,500 to 3,000. Result – England win (despite being outnumbered five or six to one).

Battle of Halidon Hill: Scottish Forces 13,000; English forces – 9,000. Result – England win (14 English casualties!).

Battle of Dunbar: Scottish and English numbers unknown; cavalry battle. Result: England win.

The very first four I looked at. Which reminded me of:-

Battle of Agincourt: French forces – outnumbered the English by six to one (French chronicler Jehen de Waurin). Result – England win.

Battle of Crecy: French forces – 35,000 to 100,000. English forces – 12,000 to 16,000. Result – England win.

Just a couple, and that ignores naval victories without number.

This doesn't give me the impression that England is a bunch of effete military incompetents and cowards. No doubt, the Scots will have an excuse to rubbish every English victory (you'll need a lot of excuses), while any Scottish victory will have no such caveats. How convenient.

I've just been reading 'Goodbye to All That' by Robert Graves. Odd that this vision of Scots as military supermen didn't strike him during his long service in World War One:

'A strong, comradely feeling bound the Middlesex and the Royal Welch (Graves' regiment), intensified by the accident that the other three battalions in the brigade were Scottish…Our adjutant voiced the extreme non-Scottish view 'The jocks are all the same…they're dirty in trenches, they skite too much and charge like hell – both ways.' The First Middlesex, who were the original 'diehards', had more that once, with the Royal Welch, considered themselves let down by the jocks.'

Basic discipline:

'We once discussed which were the cleanest troops in trenches, taken by nationalities. We agreed on a descending-order list like this: English and German protestants; Northern Irish; Welsh and Canadians; Irish and German catholics; Scots, with certain higher ranking exceptions.'

Sorry to shatter the myths (like your hilarious record at 'inventions') you mindlessly accept as fact.

I was in the army for three years myself. I never had then or since a single Scotsman say to my face I was an inferior soldier to him because of my nationality. What a surprise!

The reason I never responded to the "wha's like us garbage" is because I have never taken it seriously.
It is and has always been tourist kitch.
As for your very valid points about the bravery and military prowess of the English in all those battles you listed (and you could have listed many more than that), there is no dispute.
What puzzles me as someone on the outside looking at Britain today, is, why are you all tearing at one another ?
Why do you all get your knickers in a knot about trivialities ?
You are supposed to be a "United" kingdom, yet you are constantly practicing internecine warfare.
United you may stand, but divided you shall surely fall on hard times.
I thank my lucky stars I was born and live where I do.
At least we are a united country and haven't to put up with bits of it wanting devolve, succeed or go their own way.

James VI was born in Linlithgow palace in Scotland

Your peots, writers and novelists are not for wariors an men of science

Battle o' Banochburn - 1Regiment of English and the rest the usual mercinaries bought from anywhere in Europe

Well Jonah! I don't know anyone who believes the tourist tea-towel kitsch, but boy, it must have taken you a lot of precious time to research just how much of it was tripe or truth. All I can say is, get a life. Either that or get your own Anti-Scottish tea towels printed. Would your time not have been better put to use informing us of the truly Scottish inventors and true Scottish achievments.? What with you being such a know it all, you must know of them and there will be plenty to teach us about if you look. Maybe you'd rather not though, eh? Maybe you're an anti-Scottish bigot.

I don't think Jonah is with us anymore Lori.
As you said, I think he was definitely an anti Scottish bigot and I don't know why he was on this site, unless it was to cause trouble (as some do).
I was hoping he was going to come back at me over my last post as I had some interesting things to say about his last post, but he didn't. He just packed up his bat and ball and buggered off.
Good riddance.